Curse

Asgar · Jul 26, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

No, there's no need to close this thread. Those who disagree with the OP's rather extreme speculations have no need to resort to flaming. While I disagree with him, I don't see why he should not be allowed to express his concerns about the future of this game that we are all so fond of. Let's try to be polite and rational, please!

Markaedw · Jul 26, 2006, 03:06 AM // 03:06

OP I bet you think that the moon walk was staged and the FBI shot JFK.

You are really streching things.

Besides I would be happy to buy more faces, promo weapons, $10 so I would not have to put up with morons or spammers, where do I sign? I can buy as many slots as I want now, but I can't transfer faction from one account to another.

Besides we already have these things, Collector's Edition, Special Edition, Pre-Order Edition, Game of the Year Edition.

Caleb · Jul 26, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

At the moment, this is conjecture.

Thank goodness....

Minus Sign · Jul 26, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

...Can't be done, need more information before they become apparent. Same here, we'll see when we get more information if you're on the right track, or just shooting in the dark...

Yes; thats the big problem. I can't prove Anet intends to do this without a look at their release schedule. But think back to 3 months ago. There was no way the servers could handle the strain of all these merged accounts running with 8 slots. In only 3 months we've gone from can't do it to here you go...for an extra $10 please.

Also...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

ArenaNet knows (or at least should know) going to far with pay to upgrade WILL kill the game. WE asked for this. We ASKED to be given more slots even if we had to pay for them. ArenaNet agreed.

Asking a game company to stop at just the one Pay to Update hit to your wallet is a little bit like asking the kids to behave when you lock them inside the cady store unsupervised. By the time we know for sure, it will be too late to do anything other than:

A. Live with it.
B. Sue them.
C. Go elsewhere.

This company is not here to give you a killer game. Their primary focus is to get your money. The more of your money they can get, the more of your money they will grab for. Frankly, I doubt (based on the evidence available now) that there was ever a server problem with 8 slots on merged accounts. I think the 6 for merged accounts was a way to get players to hollar for this update; an excuse for Anet to start breaking its own word. The really sad part is, we've thanked them while they're doing it to us.

I wouldn't be making a stink about this if they were just adding this to a Special Edition game pack. I won't complain when someone pays more than I do and gets more content be it mini-pet, focus item and weapon, glowing hands whatever. But purchaseable--standalone--updates that exist outside the game supplied is a change of the rules mid-race. Its dirty pool plain and simple.

pork soldier · Jul 26, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

I think paid character slots are bad for people who want free handouts...

I fail to understand why the ability to have more characters than other people should be free.

Aera Lure · Jul 26, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Please tell me how this is any different than what I did back in September and many I know did some point along the way already: bought a second account. Four more slots for ~$40-50. Woo. The only real difference from this is Anet is giving us the option to buy that in 25% increments merged onto our existing account. Means a guildie doesnt need to be on to transfer items etc between them and most importantly unlocks carry over. Completely BEYOND me how this affects someone in any way adversely. Tons of people already paid to get more slots. Anet simply streamlined the process and did something nice for us.

Add to that, as Markaedw said, we also already have some additionally paid for premium content. Nothing Earth-shattering, but the aforementioned special additions. I fail to see any problem with that either.

thecyberninja · Jul 26, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Personally myself i had to buy another acc, but if given the option i would buy extra slots. since its such a hassle xfering between both my accs. i currently am only able to have 5 pve chars and 1 pvp char on 1 acc and on my other acc its just a hassle to switch stuff to it so its just mules. so i will happily buy more character slots if anet were to sell them

Terra Xin · Jul 26, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

When Factions came out there were two reasons why there would not be 8 character slots on merged accounts: 1: the fuzzy math argument that merged accounts were already getting more access or equal access to content in the game that non-merged accounts would get. And 2: they couldn’t afford to give all these merged accounts 8 slots; it would be too much strain on the servers.

This is pure speculation, you have no proof that these were the actual two reason as to why Anet did not implement this feature earlier.The fact that it would be too much of a strain on servers is a weak argument, you might as well have said that they predicted that they would get 2 million copies sold, because their servers haven't crashed yet.

Quote:

3 months later, with the price of GWP and GWF lowered from $50 to $40 at my local retail store…they can give you the slots you asked for.

Im not sure if you already know this, but this happens to all games. Called depreciation or something.

Quote:

I see this as an addition of content, as noticeable by the fact that you cannot access content without character slots. I believe it an imbalance to the game, an addition of player power that is not gained through skill or purchase and expansion of your account.

This is purely based on perception, most people will say that it does not add content to the game, when it obviously does. In actual fact, it takes a simple minded person to realise that it in no way grants you an advantage in the game... Advantage to farmers? Purchases can reach into the millions, but it's dumb to think that a person with 10 accounts with 1.1million will be able to purchase anything from a person who has 6 accounts, and no physical way to store the additional cash. So, no advantage to farmers there. And advantage to PvPers? Compare that to someone who has to reroll, the only advantage is time.

Oh, and making the comparison between 'skill' and 'additional character slots' is a bad idea. I only have one Mesmer that I am truly good at, and all 5 of my other slots I use to train myself so that I can properly use my mesmer against them. 'That' is skill.

Quote:

Take a look at a few hypothetical scenarios this latest action by Anet opens up for the company:

I'll have to watch what I say. ok, first of all, we would really like RP Servers. Thats like the biggest ask out of all of the senarios you have listed. But if there is no way they can do it, then that's just tough luck for us. (Note that Anet is fully capable of adding in more character slots, because we 'know' it would be possible since we were able to merge our accounts. RP districts however...) A simple solution (which Anet should really push) is to simply create your own RP with your own friends, and there would be no need for RP districts.

Having all faces for any campaign is just stupid. I hope that people agree with me on this, but having a Tyrian born character with Canthan features is just wrong, and GW cannot comprehend the possibility of half-breeds, which is actually a better idea. (If I offended anyone im sorry^^)

"Don't like locked doors??? Tough Luck!!" That's what Anet would say. It was a move to prevent runners from skipping the whole game, and though it failed harshly from the responses of Factions players, it will be hopeful that Anet will not do the same thing to up and coming chapters... But charging players $10 to bybass the areas that only apply to ONE game (Factions)... I think you're over your head on this one.

For the 100% access to get to any part of the map in the game... is just a waste of time.

---

For all of those hypothetical situations... all that you have done is made sure that these ideas wont happen... seeing them hypothetically will allow me... and hopefully others to think and protest against such ideas... because they remind me of a thread I once saw, asking to have the skill frenzy stack with infuse health...

Oh I love this following quote... its 100% contradictory

Quote:

THIS???! Is not the game I bought.
It is not the Guild Wars I wanted to play.
It’s a lesser version of EQ/WoW at EQ/WoW prices.
It’s pay to upgrade, something Anet said they’d never do.

Line 1: YOu're absolutely correct, as nothing you have said in your thread has even come into fruition.
Line 2: Refer to line 1
Line 3: How dare you compare us to EQ and WoW!!! lol
Line 4: Based on perception, otherwise you're completely wrong

I said that I love this quote above because you've made an attempt to use hypothetical situations as your summary to say the quote above... flawed... completely flawed.

Quote:

And before you say they won’t in the future ask yourself: why wouldn’t they? If it gives them more of your money, why wouldn’t they do just that?

Because as much as you would like for this to happen. Why wouldn't they? Because Anet has made such a goddamn excellent game, coupled with the famous worldwide Guild Wars Championship, along with their business outline "NO FEES" answers why they wouldn't need to add in paid content. The reason for the character slots was answered by the peples needs, and their ability to do so. (All of you hypothetical situations are either non-possible, or unwanted) I mean... prophecies is so awesome... the scenery is something to die for. My favourite places are the Ice Cave, The Statue of Lyssa in Mineral Springs, and The Falls. I go visitng those places all the time... oh, and Serenity Temple is awesome too. In factions, I like the Falls (forgot the name) located in Kinya Province, I really really love the Divine Path... getting all of those applauses... so cool.

But you know, your first thread was closed for a reason, opening up a thread that is very similar to this means you're trying to dig a wound and hoping someone else would fix it. You either need to back up your hypothesis with better comparisons to other games... or you should just leave the wound, and let me fix the worriful damage you are trying to cause.

Pure speculation... this thread should go to the Nightfall forum.. no offense.

EDIT: I have a really nasty habit of getting into arguments, so I'll try not to post in here agian^^.

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 26, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Yes; thats the big problem. I can't prove Anet intends to do this without a look at their release schedule. But think back to 3 months ago. There was no way the servers could handle the strain of all these merged accounts running with 8 slots. In only 3 months we've gone from can't do it to here you go...for an extra $10 please.

This arguement falls flat on it's face because you can only play one character at a time on any account, any server lag issues were the result of the release of Factions, not the amount of people playing. (Tyria runs smooth as silk & Factions is getting there - except the city)

Quote:

Also...Asking a game company to stop at just the one Pay to Update hit to your wallet is a little bit like asking the kids to behave when you lock them inside the cady store unsupervised.

You pay to update with every new chapter that comes out. I do not consider this an update, as that there's nothing new here and it's not something that people HAVE to do to keep playing the game. I don't buy a character slot, I keep playing anyway. As I said, it's a win-win situation for A-Net and the people who WANT to exercise the option, without hurting those who don't!

SchwarzKnight · Jul 26, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

This company is not here to give you a killer game. Their primary focus is to get your money. The more of your money they can get, the more of your money they will grab for.

Um, yup. We know this process as capitalism. Been around for a while, too, I think.

Quote:

Frankly, I doubt (based on the evidence available now) that there was ever a server problem with 8 slots on merged accounts.

Point me to where an actual A-Net representative said there was, please. To my recollection, the only people that said this were players speculating or rationalizing during the whole 6 vs 8 character slot controversy. And, even if there was, and I'm not saying there was, $10 per slot goes a long way toward solving any server issues, I'd wager.

Quote:

I wouldn't be making a stink about this if they were just adding this to a Special Edition game pack. I won't complain when someone pays more than I do and gets more content be it mini-pet, focus item and weapon, glowing hands whatever. But purchaseable--standalone--updates that exist outside the game supplied is a change of the rules mid-race. Its dirty pool plain and simple.

How is this Special Edition example you mention any different from what's happening now? I mean, outside of some different verbage. You prefer they call this "Guild Wars: Factions; Extended Edition"?
- Yes, with this new version of Factions you will get 5 character slots and 3 if you merge with your existing Prophecies account. It all comes for the low low price of $59.95! -
Difference? I see none. Not to be reiterative, but as many people have said before, this option was already available in allowing the purchase of a 2nd account, though there was some hassle involved in making those two accounts cohesive. Now A-Net is eliminating that hassle.

To put this in mathematical terms, you're attempting to extrapolate a line using a single point. Doesn't work. So, I would preach patience before sounding the Doom and Gloom Alarm™ (that seems to be going off rather frequently as of recently) again. If you don't like the idea of purchasing another character slot, then don't. But, counter to your argument, you will not have some corner of the map, some aspect of the game, some great uber skill cordoned off away from you because of it. Each of your 4 or 6 or 8 or however many slots has the same options and access as everyone else's, regardless of how many character slots are on the account.

pork soldier · Jul 26, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

The haters here also seem to be forgetting that you have access to all of your unlocks when you buy new character slots, something you most certainly do not have access to when you buy a second account.

One point, paying for extra character slots is different than paying for extra content - factions is extra content, character slots are, well, character slots. We're not being asked to purchase nickel-and-dime content and I'm certain that there will be plenty of people screaming if we are asked to do so. You might want to save your eRage for a time when it's sensible, otherwise people might stop listening.

silyrinth · Jul 26, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

A-Net: Let's see...one year of providing server access without monthly fees, a somewhat steadily growing base of users, a third chapter about to be released that will further tax servers...and our initial budget only covers certain things. Damn the utility companies for wanting us to give them money, and those freaking developers for wanting paychecks! Well, we can still give the players extras they want, we'll just have to charge them for it.

OP: OMGWTFBBQ!!ONEELEVEN! Ebil capitalists trying to actually make some sort of profit somehow! THEY'LL BE CHARGING FOR THE AIR WE BREATHE NEXT, MARK MY WORDS!

Get a grip. There are these really fun things you might have heard of, called trees and flowers and grass. They're in this magical place called 'outside', which does happen to be completely free to go to.

Okay, being serious now. Guild Wars, like WoW and EQ, is a franchise. They are a business. Businesses have costs, and usually do not make quite the amount you think they do. For one, a business or company usually prices its product at 50% of the shelf price, and sells it to other companies for this price.

So, at 2 million copies, A-Net most likely did not make $100 million, provided that you assume every copy is the equivalent of $50. A-Net sells its 2 million products to EBGames, Babbages, CompUSA, BestBuy, etc., for about $50 million.

So, we have $50 million dollars in the bank. Prophecies got, I believe, a full year of development before the team was split in two, so that means once we hit October or so the development teams will have been working for two years. So we need to pay two years worth of salaries to designers, developers, programmers, artists, testers, producers, etc.

Let's say each of these people makes a base 50k a year. Factions had (going by the credits in the manual):

3 Executive Producers
15 Designers
31 Artists
11 Environmental Artists
18 Programmers
5 Writers
2 Producers
6 members of the business team
3 Community Liasons
3 IT workers
3 man Localisation team
4 Web and Virtual Designers
4 Contractors

That's 108 people, we'll times it by 2 to include the team working on Nightfall thus far to give us 216. 216 x $50k = $10,800,000.

Now remember, they've been paying these people for two years, so that's $21,600,000. That's not including benefits, profit shares, and all that other good stuff you generally need to keep your employees happy, so we'll round that up to $22.5 million over two years.

$50 million - $22.5 million = $26.5 million.

COSTS:

Let's say it costs about $1.00 just to store your data on the server per month, for the basic four slots that come with each game. So for each copy of Guild Wars: Prophecies and Guild Wars: Factions, it costs A-Net $1.00 a month before you even play.

2 million copies x $1.00 = $2 million per month. Multiply that by two years (24 months) and you get $48 million.

$26.5 million - $48 million = ....uh oh.

---------

Now, obviously the Guild Wars franchise isn't going to be that far in the hole. They would, of course, have the initial investments and all of their employees would not be bringing in $50k a year necessarily. So, balancing costs out to zero would mean I have a margin of more than $20 million for error, and I don't doubt there are errors since I suck at math.

Originally A-Net wouldn't need the excess income, because they wouldn't have had 2 years worth of employees to pay for, nor 2 years worth of information storage for 2 million units at that point. They no doubt had original investments as well, which covered basic costs of original development and probably evened out that $20 million error I have up there.

Quite frankly, A-Net's decision to make new character slots available for a price has nothing to do with an interest in whether or not you feel like shelling out an extra $10-$20 to 'play with the big boys'. It has to do with paying salaries, server upkeep, new campaign product manufacture, and generally all of the things you want that it is not free to provide you with over a prologned period of time, during which the costs add up to far more than they originally started with.

The Guild Wars original vision was a one-time-purchase game with outstanding features, great content, and a continuously expanding world. To continue providing that, they have to keep current players happy and buying new chapters and available 'features' such as the new character slots.

Free storage upgrade? Free holiday and weekend events? Free to play whenever I want 24/7 against anybody in the world I want to play with? Not to mention the flexibility of choice between an RPG and a worldwide, player vs. player gladiator arena? Contact people who actually read player forums to see what the players want so they can provide it? All of which would pretty much stay the same even if A-net DID start adding purchasable extras willy-nilly, I might add.

The company is here to give you a 'killer game'. Providing a popular game means more users, which means more money, which means more game improvements and profit, which means both company and players win. A-Net is not some kind of parasite, no business is. They have a survival relationship with their customers...provide the customers with what they want, and the customers will provide you with income. Happy customers mean you do better in the long run.

I happen to think they're doing a damn good job of providing what other mmorpgs do not while still maintaining their reputation as a business. Let's not forget that Guild Wars, as a whole, is an entertainment item. It is not a right to play it, it is a privilege. If it changes too much for your liking, then it is a privilege you may choose to no longer pay for.

This is the cost for the feature, period. It is either worth it to you to pay for it, or it isn't. If they implement further purchasable features, those will be the costs, period. Again, it is either worth it to you to pay or it isn't. If they decide to whip off their Friendly Angel mask to reveal horns and a tail and start charging monthly fees, that is their right as a business, it is either worth it to you or not.

It already is no longer the Guild Wars you originally purchased, it has evolved. If this is not the Guild Wars you enjoy playing, stop playing it.

Anakin The Paladin · Jul 26, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Im not sure if my opinion on this matter counts too much but what the heck:I think you are digging way too much into this,a few extra character slots would be good.But if Anet did start to do the things you described id be against that.For now im excited for the new slots.

Shanaeri Rynale · Jul 26, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Personally I have no problem with Anet offering bonus features for a price, it's their cost model, their game and they can do what they like.

Now obviously we dont want to see a horse armor situation, but I would happily pay a certain amount per month for additional stuff. For example

For $10 per month you get account insurance, in the event of your character or account being hacked, scammed or deleted AN will restore your account/character to what it was before.

You don't need it, and AN don't have the resources to do this in the current cost structure, but a pay per month for an insurance policy would be able to fund this.

Realistically paying for content is against AN's stated structure. Paying for account features, which have no bearing on where and what you can do in game are totally fair enough.

markus_thom · Jul 26, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

o.o hmmn.....let me see...the community asks for more slots, even if they have to buy it. Anet says yes. you seem to think Anet making money is a bad thing.

Thats just...bizarre.

I think Anet should indeed capitalize on optional "pay-only" things to sustain their franchise.

My idea for more "pay to get" additions:

Upgrade an existing account to collectors edition - $15

Add pre-order weapons from chapter 1 - $10

Add pre-order weapons from chapter 2 - $10

Add GOTY weapon pack for - $10

That would rock

Maybe adding content to older chapters such as continued story line, Id pay for instead we get to chose from t shirts that say I love charr or releases of collectors edition propercies which you pay full price for getting next to nothing in content.

I mean even the releases of the next chapters to half life 3 your paying 30 dollars and although incredibley short you do actually pay for something extra.

I have no problem with paying a little bit of money, although it would be nice if they made content worth buying.

The Whakka · Jul 26, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

there is always gonna be that one guy moaning about whatever. just dont buy them and suffer whatever consequenses you think itll have on the game. im buying 4. 1 presearing, 1 pvp and 2 more to cover all professions in pve.

Arturo02 · Jul 26, 2006, 08:21 AM // 08:21

you don't really do a lot to prove your argument. Specifically why are they bad? How will they imbalance the game?

I don't have hours to disseminate what you are saying, put it to us in layman's terms please and thank you

RTSFirebat · Jul 26, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

To OP.

Your post seems to work on the old "What-if" way of thinking. Why on earth would A.net charge $10 to add a jump command? Not only would they not do that since it makes no sense, but even if they did add jumping in it be a free upgrade for everyone.

A.net has proven time and time again that they aren't that hungry for money by giving us FREE updates... does SF summer update ring a bell? How about the new PvP Arenas? Or the new storage addtion?

Sorry but there is clear reason as to why you last thread was deleted/locked by a mod, this thread is a flame fest, most likely your older one was a well.

GWG has some of the best mods on the Internet, nothing is locked or deleted without reason.

SaucE · Jul 26, 2006, 08:44 AM // 08:44

My comment towards the server load issue with the addition of more slots:

A coupel of months ago we weren't able to play for a day because of a server move/upgrade. With this move/upgrade, the servers more than likely became capable of taking on the addition of more character slots.

My comments towards the addition of character slots:

I would like to see another way of purchasing them. IE. a game card. Not everyone has or can get a credit card to make an online purchase. I think we should atleast have one slot for every profession in the game.

azunder · Jul 26, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

One of your arguments is that other MMORPGs have already implemented a "mandatory" pay-for-upgrade system. Are there any other MMOs that do this other that the ones you mentioned?

EQ2 - EQ already has monthly fees, I don't think their situation and reason is close enough to GW to warrant a comparison. But, (as a wild guess) maybe they added that because they were losing money. If Anet started losing money, we're going to lose the game we love whether or not they start adding a pay-for-upgrade system or not!

Knight Online - Knight Online is free to download so their income is from the upgrades. Anet does not give accounts for free, you need to buy it first.